I want to talk about body image, mine in particular. I have been thinking about my own body image over the last few weeks, not obsessing about it, just considering it, analyzing, reflecting. So this post is about my opinion & my experience.
Why have I been giving my body image alot of thought? Two reasons. The first is that I recently made the following statement or something like it : “I don’t think that a mother’s body image always has an impact on her daughter’s body image because I grew up with a mum whose negativity about herself was out of control, and I have always had a really positive body image, but my daughters relationship with food isn’t great ”
I was then asked about whether or not I felt that my boob job and Botox use demonstrates to my daughter that I am dissatisfied with the way I look and therefore has a negative impact on her body image? It was a good question – and it was asked in a very polite non confrontational way. A short time after that, others asked the question too, or should I say, they made accusations (on this blog). I was told that I had no ‘right’ to be talking about body image, when my actions and behaviour (surgery and Botox) meant that my body image was negative, which obviously contributed to causing my daughter to have body image issues.
OK, with respect to Charli, I won’t go into detail about her, I will just say this, Charli does not have an eating disorder, she’s fine & healthy – there are days she is happy with herself and days she’s not (like most women). After I gave it some thought I felt fairly confident that she hasn’t been adversely affected by the improvements I have chosen to make, no more than she would be adversely affected by me applying mascara or having my hair coloured. Maybe the way I am, has made her want to always put her best foot forward appearance wise, but she’s a whole lof of other pretty good stuff too. I think it’s setting a perfectly good example for my daughter that I take pride in my appearance, change things if I want to and don’t dwell on (bang on about) any negatives, it’s the way I’ve always been. I also believe I set a good example for her by being happy, confident, resilient, going to work, meeting my responsibilities, having good friends and enjoying my life.
But I still chose to reflect upon and analyse the question and yes, even the nastly accusations. Believe it or not, I rarely see the world in black and white, I am always happy to question my beliefs and opinions, often I come full circle, but I always ask myself the questions, just to make sure.
So first let me talk about what Therapist said when I emailed him with a few questions. My first question was “if I have had surgery to improve my appearance does mean that I have body image issues? Do you have to like everything about yourself to have a positive body image?” his answer “no, everyone has things about themselves that they don’t like, its very normal, but if you want to fix it, fix it – I don’t see a problem with that, it doesn’t mean you have issues & no, you don’t have to love everything about yourself to have a positive body image”
Next question “So what behaviours would someone have to be displaying for you to say they had body image issues” he said that he would say someone had body image issues if the way they felt about themselves impacted the rest of their life, if they spent a considerable amount of time dwelling on something, if it overwhelmed them, if it made them that unhappy or self conscious that it prevented them from doing the things they wanted to do”.
OK interesting, so I don’t have to love everything about myself, I can fix things if I want to fix them, and I should do my best to accept the things that I choose not to fix or that aren’t fixable. And ultimately, I’m pretty normal if have occasional self doubt, as long as I mostly feel good about myself. So, then I wondered, is our expectation that we and others should be totally happy about the way we look, a smidge unrealistic? I personally think it’s as unrealistic as seeking perfection.
Let me talk about my body, a state of the nation as it were, and the second reason I have been giving my body image a fair bit of thought. For the past 3 or 4 years I have been fairly skinny (5ft 8 and size 8-10), I felt pretty damn good about myself, everything fit me and everything looked good, all the time. Then my lifestyle changed, I got a bit older, and I actually posted a while back about how I couldn’t stop eating, I have rectified my habit of overindulgence, but I’ve put on about 5kg’s. I’m now sitting smack bang in the middle of the healthy weight range for my height, size 10-12 (I know I know, it’s still slim – I’m not whinging – promise) … but at first the weight gain really bothered me, especially when I had to start discarding some of my pants, cos I LOVE my clothes. I made a commitment to cut out fat and carbs and salt and sugar, and start exercising, so that I could get back to my skinny self, because it felt good … and I really wanted my 6 pairs of discarded pants to fit me.
Well let’s just say that as it turned out I wasn’t THAT committed.
After some serious introspection, I realized that the way I felt wasn’t affecting me that much, I definitely wasn’t dwelling on it, so I’ve decided that I’m ok with the extra kilos. I’ve bought myself some new pants & they look good. It made me have a really good think about where my priorities were, I’m happy with my current lifestyle, I love pizza, pasta and red wine, I want to eat and drink whatever I want whenever I want, and I want to exercise when I feel like it, not on demand (been there done that). I want to use my time & energy for other things. So I’ve made the decision to be happy with where I’m at. Would I like to be skinnier? Yes. Can I live happily with the fact that I’m not as skinny as I would like to be? Yes. If my priorities change and I decide that I want to be skinnier is that ok? Yes.
So, what is positive body image to me? It’s a balance, yin & yang, the conviction, power & choice to change what you want to change, coming to terms with and accepting what you can’t change, and being kind to yourself. I think mine is fine, and so is Charli’s – there’s stuff we don’t love but we get on with living.
So, how do you feel about yourself at the moment? What do you think positive body image is? I’m happy for you to challenge or question me, my opinions aren’t set in stone …
I’ve been thinking some more about this post – and the questions you were thinking about Steph in relation to mother/daughter relationships and body image.
I think there is potential for a mother to negatively influence her daughter’s self image if the mum puts a huge, disproportionate value on appearance – speaking about herself and others in a way that makes the child think that looking good or not looking good (however you judge that) makes a person good or bad.
It doesn’t sound like you do that. Sure, you like to look your best and you have taught your daughter to make an effort to look her best, but that doesn’t seem the same to me as teaching your child that a conventionally attractive person is a GOOD person and a less attractive person is a BAD person.
I think kids probably take in more/develop anxieties about their appearance if they hear their parents constantly criticising OR praising other people’s looks than if they see their parents spending a lot of time and money on their own appearance.
Does that make any sense? I seem to have taken a lot of words to express a simple idea quite poorly!
I went away and thought about this, and I think it is patently unfair for anyone to say that a mother is the sole influence on her daughter’s body image. Same goes for the media.
Fathers, older siblings, friends, frenemies, older (usually female) relatives, all impact on our self-image, well before the media and boyfriends have a shot.
I know I’m coming into this pretty late, but I still want to contribute to the post. I have read all the comments and there is a lot of wisdom among the comments…and things that I can take and apply to my own life.
)
I was having a discussion about body image with two friends yesterday and for the most part we are our harshest critics. Even though I don’t have a lot of body issues it’s still very difficult to talk about this stuff. For me, it’s because I’m on the slimmer side and so if I say something about myself, people think ‘if she thinks that about herself…what is she thinking about me!?’
Truthfully, I haven’t weighed myself in nearly 3 years… but I’m pretty sure I don’t need those numbers to complicate life further.
—
I wrote a whole bunch of other stuff but I’ve deleted it. Instead I’ll paste some of my favourite comments:
“no one is perfect and we all have our quirks and areas we are not happy about.” ~ Linda
“I think positive body image is feeling comfortable with yourself” ~ KateToo
“there is lots of freedom in getting old” ~ WW (this comment made me laugh
“Your friends and lovers will still love you, and the ones who don’t, don’t matter” ~Fender
“I wish I hadn’t wasted all that time worrying about my body when it was so clearly awesome” ~ Clare
Nice summary there – That’s all folks!
Sorry don’t have time for a real comment.
Steph, I’m interested, what was your response to the Heidi Montag post on MM last year? I can’t remember. Were u on the defense for plastic surgery n her right to do it?
Just interested….I think she’s a bit of a wacko anyways, and the way she spoke about it was fairly nuts. Wondering if you saw her case as different from the rest of platic surgery. (ie. bad, and for the wrong reasons, including coz of bad self esteem n body image.)
sorry if I’m not making a lot of sense.
xx
Honestly LaBelle I don’t think I weighed in too much on the Heidi surgery thing except to say that I think she overdid it, and it was possibly related to the fact that she and Spencer seem to be fame hungry.
I didn’t read any of the interviews with her, so I’m not sure what she said either.
I think the assumption would be that someone who seeks to change their appearance so completely & dramatically, may have more serious underying issues. But who knows what those issues are.
Maybe some would assume that she felt so bad about the way she looked and that’s why she undertook all of that surgery – but it may be more about her desire to be famous & not being particularly talented, maybe she just needed to do something drastic for more publicity?
I was feeling pretty good about myself for a while, body, mind, spirit, etc. but lately have been feeling pretty crap about lots of things to do with my appearance. I’m going through a transitional phase, really starting to see the signs of ageing settling in and it’s scary and confronting.
Embrace embrace embrace old age, it is wonderful, love ooxx
You are right WW, you may as well, because it beats the alternative.
Happy Easter and love ooxx.
Thank you BS happy Easter to you to love ooxx
Thanks WW. I meet older people regularly around my neighbourhood, most of them are lovely, and they do inspire me (gulp).
OK, so I have a question, based on Louby’s great call that as you get older, you get more comfortable. I know that I am happy with my body which is up to 30kgs heavier than I was in my teens and 20s, when I wasn’t happy with it at all. So, does anyone else sit back and think, fuck – I wish I hadn’t wasted all that time worrying about my body when it was so clearly awesome, perky and cellulite free?
Yes I do Clare. It was wasted energy and to think I felt insecure about my looks when I looked good, what a waste of headspace!
Absolutely!! Which is why now I try to appreciate myself a bit more. I don’t want to look back in another ten years time and think how much time I wasted when I actually looked ok.
We all did, love ooxx
Yes Clare, this is the irony. We are at out most self-conscious when our bodies are at their best.
Yes Clare, this is the irony. We are at our most self-conscious when our bodies are at their best.
Apologies for the double-post, was trying to correct my morning fog typo. xx
Yes I really do!
Hi TRS,
I certainly don’t think having a mother who tried to look her best would damage a child’s self esteem. Constantly being told you were fat or having a parent always complain about how they look would probably create a negative body image problem. Having a mum who works with what she’s got, does her best to look as good as she can and is confident with how she presents herself to the world is great.
As for me…the older I get the more I understand that not everyone is worried about how I look. Having small children it’s often a miracle just to get out of the house dressed and washed, let alone looking particularly attractive. Personally I have started to believe my hubby when he tells me that I am beautiful and to accept the compliments when they come. I spent so much time, in my early twenties particularly, worrying about how I looked, covering myself with foundation and thinking I was fat without realising how good I looked. Now I have a bit of extra weight but it’s because I am a woman, content and have borne two beautiful children.
No way am I always comfortable with my body image but I definitely do not focus on it as much as I used to.
I put all my body image issues down to growing up with a group of girlfriends who are simply stunning and who I can’t help look positively plain next to..
I am getting better now that I am older but there are times where we’re all at the beach in our bikinis and I can’t help but wish I was more tanned/thinner/taller etc..
To answer your question TRS, I believe positive body image is being totally comfortable with the way you’ve chosen to look; be it natural, through cosmetic surgery, being a gym junkie or couch potato.. Whatever gets you to a stage where you’re not actually thinking much about how you look or the effect it has on your self-esteem.
It’s a place I’d love to get to one day.
I hope you get there Leigh, there are more important things than how you look at the beach in a bikini, when I looked good in one I could not say I felt better about myself than I do now, wish I still looked like it now though
Yeah, you’re right I didn’t mean to sound so shallow – people have real problems and here I am being jealous of my friends!
Am definitely going to work on focusing on what I love about myself, thanks for bringing it to my attention x x
Didn’t mean to be focussing on my probs Leigh, just that if I had focussed on more worthwhile things then, I would be a happier person now. I think …. X
I have always equated my weight with love. Not to sound too much like a cliche but my father would whistle “The Baby Elephant Walk” whenever he saw me (we saw him about once a month). He would call me fat all the time and reward me with a bit of attention if I didn’t eat. He would then force me to eat and then call me fat again. Around and around it went. I finally felt okay in my early 20′s but then I met my (now ex) husband who again would try and control what and when I ate. He would accuse me of being fat and say that he couldn’t have a fat wife because it reflected badly on him as a health professional. I should point out that I was a size 10-12 until I had kids then 12-14. If I went to the gym he would get angry with me for having too much time on my hands. If I told him I was trying to lose weight he would bring chocolate home. But if we went out with his friends he would point out how their wives hadn’t “let themselves go”. In the very end he told me that he deserved an attractive wife and he left. So I have a pretty messed up body image and sometimes it feels like if I could just be thin, all would be well.. I am aware intellectually that this is ridiculous but from time to time the emotional side takes over. Sorry for such a long comment.. just wanted to get that out!
Hi Alice,
What a terrible story! I can’t believe a father would treat a daughter like that or a husband would say such things to his wife.
From what I’ve read on your blog (which I love by the way) you are incredibly funny, wise and clever. You deserve someone amazing who will worship the ground you walk on. I hope you find it soon.
Alice I read your comment and I would love to give you the biggest hug and the biggest chick in the ass to you dad and husband for being suck ………..you choose the word, I am so sorry about what happen to you as a child, and as a wife, I hope that you know that you are lovable and deserve the best, that life as to offer, love ooxx
See WW, this is why it’s you, not me, who is the Zen Master.
My first thought was which one of those men I’d like to give the knee to the crotch to first. Then Alice would get a hug.
xx thanks
Alice, your father and ex husband sound like douches, why would a father talk to his daughter like that? And as for your ex, he sounds like a saboteur extraordinaire!
Thanks everyone for your support.. that’s what I love about this blog.! I realised I probably sounded a bit sooky… I just thought when reading Steph’s comments about a mother’s influence that it was actually two really bad men in my life that had a devastating influence, and not my mum.
The good news is – you realised it.
… he deserved an attractive wife and left. In a way, he did you a huge favour by leaving – you got to see the real, if fucked-up, him.
Oh Alice, stories like yours about the harm people who are supposed to love us can do, make me so sad & angry.
Looks to me like the only weight you needed to lose, was the 85kg or so of dead weight you lost when your husband walked out the door!!!
Now you are free to find the fabulous life you deserve. x
Nicely put Weeze! x
My mouth is still hanging open. Firstly Alice, I wish I could take the pain away that all those comments have caused you. I know it can sound superficial to offer love and support to people you don’t know beyond an exchange of views on a blog, but that’s exactly what I want to do because nobody should have to endure this type of cruelty – ever. How do you even still like men after your experiences?
You are an intelligent, beautiful woman with obviously so much to offer this world and I hope you meet someone who can show you that love is not linked to your dress size. You deserve so much better.
Have a brilliant day Alice.
Nicely put both of you.
Alice, what awful treatment from the people close to you! It only makes me more grateful that my parents said nothing when I was an overweight teenager, and simply encouraged and supported me when I started losing weight after highschool.
I agree with Poppy: you are funny, wise and clever. You definitely deserve someone who will treat you well (and he was so far from that, he doesn’t even deserve to be breathing your air!). I’m not surprised you’ve got body issues to work through — good luck getting to the other side of them xx
Thanks picardie.girl.. I agree that parents should just be supportive and give access to exercise and healthy food and the body will sort itself out. The minute a parent starts comment on weight, giving love/attention based on weight loss etc it just sets up a life time of difficulties for the child.
Alice, that is so shitful for you. I’m sorry. That must have been awful to be on the receiving end of.
I have been thinking about how to respond to your comment (sorry it’s taken me so long!) and I just keep thinking “How SHIT that somebody would treat their child and their wife in that way, and how SHIT to cop both a dad and a husband that were so shaky in their own sense of their self that they had to put you down like that”.
So I’m sorry for the lack of sophistication in my response but I really wanted to let you know that I think that really stinks and I hope it means you have had your share of nastiness and lots of wonderful loving fantastic people are on their way into your life.
xo
This has been a fun thread, sorry I didnt get to it earlier in the day, I’ve been out.
I have always been OK about my body image, I used to be every fit and usually looked good, until recently (well, it’s been 4 years now). Getting the illness I have meant having to take prednisone which caused me to put on massive amounts of weight and my face to swell up and make me unrecognisable, my hair went really thin and my illness is a skin one so much of my skin was covered in scabs and blisters! As one friend said to me, “You used to have it all: face, figure, hair and skin” and of course I’d lost it all, and overnight practically. It did cause me significant body image issues, but it also made me really evaluate who I was and why did people treat me so differently because my appearance changed? I didn’t allow it to affect my self esteem (or tried not to but that was impossible of course). It really taught me not to sweat the small stuff which I used to do over trivial blemishes and small weight gains or the shape of my feet or knees, those worries seem laughable now. Now I have improved in appearance, not back to what I was but I have lost most of the weight and my face and hair are a lot better, and the skin thing is still there, but it is mostly on covered areas so people dont see.
Anyway, I know this is a different body issue from what most have to deal with but it has really been a life shaping one for me and there have been some good things come from it. Congratulations for dealing so well with this issue on here Steph, on other blogs it seems to go way the other way.
Wow Vicki, that’s so a big change to go through and must be testament to your strong character.
Such, rather. Not so.
Thank you so much for your supportive comment Leigh, it has been kind of a case of what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. I lost my health, and I could have lost much more as well but I chose not to. That’s simplifying it, but in a nutshell, that’s how it is.
Vicky you mention before the illness you have, that must have been very very hard for you, I am humble by your experience and learning from you, you must be a Real strong woman, glad to know you, wishing you fast and completely recovery love ooxx
That is a lovely comment wollywally, thank you. X
Vicki I have been offered Prednisone as an alternative for treating my blood disorder (ITP) but vainly I chose bruising over the side effects of Pred. It’s something I’ve struggled with a bit, sometimes I look at myself in the mirror and just see the bruises, and think I’d do anything to get rid of them. But I’ve never taken it, and I do think the weight gain, puffy face etc is a big part of it. For me at the moment, hey, I have lots of bruises, and people think my man is a wife basher (nothing further from the truth mind you). But it’s not life threatening at the level it is at the moment, so I choose to avoid the drugs and their side effects.
I know your ill-health is auto-immune (as is mine). I hope you have some good people around you to help you get through this xxx
Clare, thanks for sharing your story. I refused prednisone at first, but was told I would never get rid of my problem without high doses of it (the specialist who told me that is a world leader in her area). And my skin disease was spreading rapidly, nothing else would contain it, I had no choice. They didnt think I would be on it as long as I have been (nearly 4 years) and it has lots of other awful side effects. It is best to stay off it and the other drugs if you can. I went to a seminar yesterday that said Omega 3 fats are good and Omega 6 fats are bad for autoimmune diseases, I will try this too.X
Hey Vicki, thanks for sharing your story, that must have been incredibly tough for you, I’ll think of you next time I feel insecure about my few extra kg’s. S xxx
Vicki what an incredible thing to have to go through. You’ve obviously taken it as a life lesson too and learnt so much along the way. I’m in awe of people like yourself and glad you’ve come out the other side with so much clarity. And I’m sure we have all gained so much perspective by reading this too, I know I have. xx
Thanks Clare and Steph for your lovely comments. The only good thing I have really gained is a bit of perspective on many things and I’m glad to share it with you guys. X
What a wonderful attitude to think this is a fun thread, when you have had such issues. I agree that this ‘blog’ does it differently.
I think TRS has pointed out that there is a difference between troubling to look your best, and obsessing illogically about many things that cannot or are difficult to change.
Stay strong with that attitude.
These days, I have a pretty healthy relationship with my bod. Yeah, I’m a bit bigger than I’d like to be. But 2 babies in 18 months and a million years of breastfeeding has not been that kind (DQ I was a breastfeeding weight gainer too). But then, if I didn’t have my belly, my stretchmarks, my national geographic boobies….I wouldn’t have my babies. So it’s pretty hard to dislike anything about my body when it’s because of them.
We eat healthy, but a lot, and I like a few beers. I exercise because I like to and it makes me feel healthy.
Our major point in our house is that we focus on what our bodies are capable of, not what they look like. I’d hate for any of my kids to go down the road I did, hating their bodies and feeling like they’d let them down. So far, so good.
Great post Steph, and great comments all x
Clare I think you have a very sound relationship with your body by the sounds of things. And love the perspective about your babies.
I remember reading an article where Cate Blanchett described something similar. She described being able to embrace these changes as they are the ‘songlines’ of her body, they tell her life story.
Louby thats is the most romantic things I hear in ages, love ooxx
I call my belly stretchies my road maps – all leading to where I am today x
My body image is something I am constantly struggling with. Even with the weight dropping off I still find it hard to be comfortable in my own skin. Just last night I let my best friend hold the popcorn from the candy bar all the way into the cinema because I knew she’d get less disapproving looks than me, the fat girl with the popcorn!
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Hey Jaded Vixen Welcome – feel free to shamelessly promote your blog whenever you like! I’ll put you on my blogroll xx
That would be awesome chick…I shall be sure to do the same! Thank-you for the blog love
Totally love this post. Excellent writing TRS, your self expression is just great.
I struggled quite a bit when I was a teenager – developed big boobs practically overnight (10D in year 6) and am now a 10F. I HATED my boobs with a passion and the attention I got from males of all ages (gross I know) was awful.
For me, I have never felt better about my body since giving birth and breastfeeding. Suddenly my boobs were useful and I was quite thankful they fed my baby so well. Fast forward on 3 years and I rarely think about my body. Typing this has made me realise that I am very lucky actually. I don’t have any advice, just lots of hugs to those having a struggle with this very complex issue.
Abam, your early years sound like mine. I’m a 10DD (10F now I’m feeding) and quite small everywhere else. At school I learnt to hunch over to avoid attention and dreamed of a breast reduction. It’s taken me a few decades to unfurl, so to speak.
Having bubs does put them in perspective. I’ve made my peace with my body and count myself lucky that I can.
Yes! I perfected the hunchback teenage look too and combined with a bra the size of a two-man tent often managed to get away with being invisible. I was lucky also because the grunge look was major when I was a teenager and so I could wear men’s shirts and jeans and that was considered cool.
And now I bet you look back as I do and realise that by wearing tents you made yourself look bigger! I was only a size 8 but by hiding everything probably looked quite tubby.
Yep! I think I dress really well now for my shape, only taken me 20 years to get it right…..
Oh Louby I dreamed about a reduction in my younger days too – I was a 10DD-12DD from about the time I was 12, and swelled up to a 14H during my first pregnancy. I’m still boobing a bit, once a night for sleepy times, but I don’t know if they’ll ever settle down to anything less than the current 12E. I have to say that for now, I couldn’t have a reduction, they balance me out – I am a big boobie, big hips tiny waist sort of girl, and I’m really glad I didn’t look into a reduction earlier.
We guys have our body issues, too.I’d like to lose 10 kgs,the bags under my eyes, and the paunch, but hey sooner or later, it doesn’t matter any more. Your friends and lovers will still love you, and the ones who don’t, don’t matter………….
Standing ovation! well said Fender
What he said.
So true Fender. M and I were both skinny little things when we got together. Now we’re both a fair bit wider, and we both think the other is as hot now as we were then.
Wow what a great post this has turned into, It seems to have taken on a life of it’s own, as good posts do!
I am sitting here grinning like a chipmunk in the squeakuel….
Just on Merryl’s point Steph, do you mind when this happens? I know I have been particularly guilty today of straying off topic and ‘playing’ with the other contributors. I know that your post was quite a serious one and hope that you’re not upset when this happens – please say if you are and I’ll mend my ways.
We all have a hideous lurgy and I got 2 hours sleep last night so thanks for keeping me awake today lovelies!
Louby – of course I don’t mind, it’s all very amusing & this blog’s for all of you !!
Ah, you’re a sweetie. Thank Steph. Hope your day is improving! xx
Ummmmmmm…………….. yeah. I have good days and bad days. The days I have body issues are usually also the days where I have ‘Stop the world, I want to get off’ issues.
I was a size 8 for a lot of years, I had 2 kids, I had a hysterectomy, I went to a size 12. Several years of super-intense stress and health issues, I went out to a 14-16.
Now, with a different lot of issues, I am back to a 12. And still losing weight.
The worst time for me was the 14-16 times – because I didn’t feel ‘right’.
I am pretty happy with where I am now, I just wish I didn’t have the (hereditary, and helped along by kids and surgeries) pot belly.
My body image is pretty bad and I don’t really know how to fix it. I think my shoulders are too big, im too muscly, my legs arent long enough, my hair is disgusting, my teeth, my nose etc etc. I have thing with my boobs too. They are 10F, so they are pretty big, especially for my size. I wish that I was born with small boobs so that I could just get implants and have big perky boobs. They are pretty perky for there size, but I don’t find it fair how heaps of girls are getting boob jobs and in turn its like there is something wrong with mine because they sit naturally. I hate it. I also hate my small bum.I wish it were bigger and rounder. I’m getting a nose job on April 12th and I’m shit scared but I’m hoping it will make me feel better about my body image as I’ve always felt like I have a big nose. Just this morning as I was getting ready for work I took a glance at myself in the mirror and thought to myself “I am absolutely hideous.” I know its not right, but I don’t know how to change it. I think if I had the money I would be getting a lot of cosmetic procedures and I know that is not right. My confidence in terms of how I look is so low its affecting my relationship with my boyfriend. I get so jealous. Also, I find it hard to have one on one conversations with people because instead of listening to the other person, I am thinking inside my head, “he/she is thinking I look disgusting, they are staring at me because they think I’m gross etc etc”
I went to a psych and told them my body image problem but she made out that lots of girls are like that. I wonder what I will be like when I have a baby or when I get older. Hopefully I will snap out of this self-centered vanity. Its very shallow I know but it consumes my life…
Oh hun … I don’t think it’s self centred vanity at all … I’m going to email you. Hope that’s ok .. x
Yeh thats cool
First of all, good for you going to see a psych. But it sounds like you need to try again with a different one. It may be true that lots of women have body image issues. That doesn’t mean you have to be miserable, because other people are!
I think when you feel so low about yourself procedures are not the answer, because they will never be enough to silence that voice telling you that you’re hideous.
You are entitled to feel good about yourself Misty. Try again with therapy – it is worth trying until you find a person you click with. Sorting out why you feel this way about yourself and how you can change those thoughts that keep popping up in your head is SO worth doing – it will help you live a much happier and content life.
Good luck Misty.
Great advice from Kate.
Misty you do deserve to feel good about yourself and have confidence, everyone does. Just because others have issues too is not a reason to just go back in your box. I agree that another therapist is definitely in order.
You say it’s consuming your life – this is not good sweet.
By the way, if you’re the girl in the avatar, you are gorgeous!!
I was thinking the exact same thing – gorgeous!
Life is short – one day we will all be old and wrinkly, seize the day at hand and be nice to yourself.
There was aline in “Divine Secrets of the YaYa Sisterhood” – “don’t kick the baby”. It means – be nice to yourself. You wouldn’t kick a baby so don’t be hard on your own fragile spirit.
xoxox
I really loved that book! Something about those Southern Belles…
Have fun at Crowded House tonight. x
Thanks Weeze! I am so excited i have butterflies in my tummy!
Oh yes – have a fabo time DQ !
Full report tomorrow please!
x
Misty Hayley it is you in the photo? if so you look beautiful, love ooxx
yes its me in the photo, thanks guys for all your comments. I am really gonna try harder to like myself more but its hard when my brain is constantly telling me the opposite. I just need to change that I guess, how though, I have no idea. You’re right dramaqueen life is short, but when my relationships are getting affected by my insecurity and self-loathing, something definitely needs to change. bah!
Hi Misty Haley
Unfortunately I am no stranger to body image issues myself and have been working (with help) very hard to overcome them. I can honestly say that I cannot remember a time when I’ve looked in the mirror and have been OK with the reflection.
MH, we are our own harshest critics as we cannot be objective however, here is one of my favourite quotes from Robert Burns:- “Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel’s as others see us! “
What I see in your picture avatar is a very lovely looking woman.
Hi again,
I hope you don’t think I was trying to trivialise things, because I do have an inkling of what you are going through. I had very intense body image issues during my pregnancies – I really hated myself and couldn’t match the image of me in the mirror with the “me” I thought I should be. I was really depressed and when you feel like that no amount of advice or words from well meaning others will sink in.
Thinking of you xoxox
Sorry to hear you’ve been wrestling with this demon too Weeze. From what I’ve gathered you’ve had your fair share of other stuff to deal with too so it hardly seems fair. Take care. x
Thanks Louby.
For a while recently after I was sick, I thought that I pretty much had it under control, but during this annus horribilus I seem to have had a bit of a relapse.
I am starting to see the fog clear a bit now, and am working on being the best version of myself again. x
I have a small bum and enormous boobs too (10/12F/G)! So we’re similar, except that I have quite a chubby tum, and I’m short — so it can be hard to look petite, even though I am. The fact of the matter is that big natural boobs don’t sit up; they just don’t. It’s not something you should feel bad about. You look very pretty in your photo.
Can I suggest that you try to think of one nice thing about yourself a day? Pick some part of you that you like and give yourself a compliment. If you can’t find one, ask your boyfriend — and don’t contradict him when he says something nice. Repeat it to yourself. You need to find some positives in how you look, because I guarantee you, there are many.
I also have a quote for you for when you are talking to people and feel self-conscious: “They aren’t thinking about you. They’re thinking about themselves, just like you.” I don’t mean that they’re not concerned for you as a friend, I just mean, they aren’t thinking about you in the ways you think.
Best of luck xx
Love this quote Picardie Girl –
“They aren’t thinking about you. They’re thinking about themselves, just like you.”
going to keep it up my sleeve for my girlfriend who is very self conscious and is always worried about what people are saying about her…
Oh chick so much love coming your way x
Misty,
what happened to you when you were very young that has affected you so much; hopefully, your therapist can get to that.
As an older man, I would like to say that if you have a small bum, big boobs, blonde hair, and look half as good as you do in your avatar, then you are one stunning woman, who no doubt makes every other woman you meet feel jealous. I am sure your boyfriend thinks the same, and that is part of the reason he is with you. The other part is the mental part, and you have to trust him and his opinion on how you look.
Good luck with the operation, may it make you feel better, but I wish you did not feel you needed it.
Great comment BS love ooxx
I am pretty happy with my lot, I love my food and my cake too, and luckily for the amount of food I eat I am pretty lucky, I burn it pretty quickly. This is a great post TRS, well written, in the end it is what makes us feel good about ourself, priority do change as we get older, and as I say before, there is lots of freedom in getting old, and no to worry about the look anymore, love ooxx
I can relate to some of your feelings Steph.
Pre-preggers-moi was generally fairly happy with my body. But I was a few kilos short of being pre-first baby weight. And if I’m honest, sometimes it annoyed me, which rationally I knew was ridiculous! I mean, we’re talking about being 59 kilos as opposed to 57! Silly, right?
But then the more I thought about it, the less I WANTED to put down the tim tam. I liked a tim tam every now and then. It wasn’t like my diet was unhealthy, or I was a potential contender for The Biggest Loser, for god’s sake!
So I got over it. And I cared more about being happy rather than the 2 ‘extra’ kilos I was sporting.
Lately, I do seem to care more about the way my thighs look in swimmers, and whether I can detect any stretch marks there? God I hate stretch marks.
My weight has seesawed over the years, particularly after both pregnancies. I had pre-eclampsia in both pregnancies, 25 to 30 kgs of baby, fat & fluid. I was enormous.
At 53, I would like to be slimmer but really can’t be arsed restricting my food & wine intake. The willpower is gone, the care factor is gone. As long as I scrub up alright on the night, that’s enough for me now
I’m sure you scrub up great Merryl.
Thanks Suse, you’re a sweetie.
In the end, it’s all in your own perception of self, isn’t it. I’d like to weigh 10kgs less but I don’t, end of story. Doesn’t cause me major angst and certainly doesn’t worry me enough to stop eating chocolate or drinking red wine
Thanks for the interesting post as usual TRS.
Myself at the moment? Pretty good really. I gave birth to a 10lb 8oz Whopper with cheese 5 months ago and am below pre-baby weight at 50kilos. The down side is I’m struggling to keep weight on with breastfeeding, etc taking it out of me at the moment and my energy levels pretty low.
Apologies if this is a generalisation, but I think the older you get the more comfortable you are in your own skin. You are less forgiving of yourself in your teens and 20s if you are not flawless, perhaps because the image of youth is to be perfect?
I see nothing wrong with wanting to put your best foot forward. I have been known to put on a bit of lippy to sit at home and watch telly. It gives me a lift. If the improvements you make to yourself make you feel more confident then the flow-on affect to other areas of your life can only be positive. To be negative and unhappy with yourself is far more harmful in my opinion.
Thats a double Whopper with cheese, fries and a thick shake! Wow!
Lucky you losing weight breast feeding, I know most do but I piled it on
Eat and enjoy the extra calorie burning efforts of the milk production if you can – heck, I was hungry all the time but it didn’t just feed the babies, it fed me too! hehehe
Yes I guess he’s the full Value Meal.
He’s a monster bubba (100th percentile in everything) and it takes a lot to keep him running!
I think there is another post in there somewhere Louby. Can lippy improve your life?
When my marriage was faultering an older female relative suggested that if I made a bit more effort and wore lippy around the house things might get better. I shit you not.
Oh my! Did you slap said relative?
Reminds me of that wonderful (read: appallingly dated) Bacharach/David song Wives & Lovers. Do you know it? Dionne Warwick made it popular.
Hey, Little Girl
Comb your hair, fix your makeup
Soon he will open the door
Don’t think because there’s a ring on your finger
You needn’t try anymore
For wives should always be lovers too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
I’m warning you…
And so on and so shit.
ARRRGHHHHH!!!!!
oh no, now that crap song is wedged firmly in my mind along with exposed bottoms too big for their britches, waaaahhhh
Ha ha ha. Yes, well that explains why my marriage feel to pieces I suppose. If ONLY I’d known that combing my hair and fixin’ my makeup could have resolved it all.
Susie nobody understand us pyjama lovers, only Hugh Hefner, he likes a good pyjama and a good robe, he vindicate as all, he he he love ooxx
I was told it was like living with Humphrey B Bear because I loved my fluffy dressing gown WW!!! Only Hugh understands us…
Yay! PJ people!
Always in my passion-killer flanelettes by about 8pm. But then so is he…
It’s called being comfy!
I have a picture of a horse in pjs in my head now….
Oh, stop it you!
And I just picked on Kate Too for not typing her name in – got what I deserved!
You girls crack me up!
I looove Humphrey B Bear, actually at this moment if you look at my legs I do look like him he he he, Susie I appreciate you, and wish you to find a pyjama and robe man, to snuggle with soon, I forgot hug boots too, love ooxx
Haaaaaaaaaa. You make me smile WW. I saw a picture of Stanley in his robe the other day and I realised, he REALLY is my dream man….
Aw, ‘hug boots’… that’s what I’m going to call them from now on.
P.S. Hear you on the leg situation — me too, ww!
I know picardie.girl, ‘hug boots’ is too cute not to become part of the vernacular.
Sorry, you are right, is misspell, I asked my husband, the spelling and the first thing he ask me, is “have you write hug instead of ugg ? he knows me well, love ooxx
Please don’t apologise, you made the word better WW! Who wouldn’t want to wear hug boots? xxx
I’m going to wear my hug boots around the house with pride, thanks WW for the addition to my vocabulary
Thanks girls, looooveee you OOXX
Exactly! Wish we’d had this chat earlier…
I know Louby. You could have saved me SO much heartache.
My grandfather, who was the best man ever, told me just before I got married to make sure I didn’t let myself go!!! God love him… I know he thought he was giving me good advice..!
Thank you Steph for an honest piece of writing.
I think it’s perfectly natural for us women to fuss over our appearances, and to want to improve our looks. I think, if I could afford it (and if I’m not living in a remote location) I might consider botox when I’m older. Don’t we already spend heaps on countless beauty products – creams and foundations that we hope will improve our appearance and remove unwanted lines and wrinkles?
I totally agree with your statement regarding positive body image “there’s stuff we don’t love but we get on with living”.
I don’t like lots of things about my appearance, but life is short and I choose not to dwell upon the things I can’t change.
One thing that does bug me is when people criticise skinny people, without considering that some of us are naturally skinny and can’t help it! As a teenager I was forever teased for being too skinny, and many of the comments were very hurtful. So it pisses me off when people say being skinny equates to negative body image!!
Any-hoo, I hope everyone has a lovely day. You guys are the best!
…’I choose not to dwell upon the things I can’t change’
One of my mantras too beachlife – wasted energy!
Beachlife, my husband is like you skinny, no matter what he eat, it is still lean, no pot belly, and sometimes he has to ear some stupid comments, the typical one is that I do not feed him enough, hallooooo! bacon and eggs every morning seven, days a week, to be lean it is, in is constitution, and sometimes he does get upset about people comments, I tell you what i tell my husnabd do not let comments bother you, you can’t never win, let them slide, love ooxx
My body image is pretty good at the moment – but it has been up and down over the years.
I am short – 5 foot – so any extra weight really shows on me. I was always a healthy, fit teen, did hours of dance classes a week. When I left school I wasn’t exercising, I went on the pill and in two years found I had gone up two dress sizes.
I got fit again, felt great, got married and had kids. I HATED being pregnant. I hated the swollen ankles, puffy face (I had pre-eclampsia with the first and heaps of fluid retention with all of the babies). I looked ridiculous in maternity clothes and, each time, got very depressed; probably due to a combination of hormones and body image issues.
My weight went up and down, mainly up, after the kids and a few years ago I decided enough was enough. I started running, I did Weight Watchers online and I lost 10 kilos over a course of about two and a half years.
I was very careful of the message I gave my kids, especially my eldest as she is a ballet dancer and a high achiever (a recipe for eating disorders but, so far all good!). I told the kids that I wanted to be healthy, I wanted to do a fun run, I wanted the best energy foods for my body etc
I’ve put on a little weight in the last 12 months, about 3 kilos, as I have not had so much time to exercise etc but I am happy with me.
And I think I did get some body stuff from my mum – she told me when i was about 14 I had a pot belly, which apparently “runs in our family”, and that I should pull my tummy in. She even told me to have a check in shop windows and elevator mirrors to make sure it was not poking out! LOL. Still. it made me have good posture but i do have a belly hang up
This was good to read. Your posts always sound very honest and straight up. It’s refreshing to read without all the pc garbage and wishy washy stuff.
My body image is ok. It is more about how I feel than how I look. I know when I need to pick up the game, with some exercise or better eating, as I start feeling lethargic and uncomfortable.
I do have one feature that bothers me and may do something about that one day. As for botox … not now but I wouldn’t rule it out for the future.
I enjoyed reading this very much Steph – thank you for once again being willing to share so much with us.
Thinking about my own body image, I reckon it is pretty good – it’s my wardrobe image that is bad! Like you, accepting those extra kilos that come along is more about clothes not fitting than the actual larger dimensions themselves.
Not having the time and money to go out and get a new set of clothes that fit and that are flattering to your new shape makes it hard to feel happy about your appearance – that is why when I am BD (Benovelent Dictator) enlisting the help of a stylist will be claimable on Medicare and every turn of the decade from 30 on, as well as after the birth of a baby or a significant medical issue that affects our bodies, we will get a bonus clothing allowance payment!
I think positive body image is feeling comfortable with yourself. Not feeling you are perfect necessarily, but not having a significant amount of your time and energy spent on thoughts about how to look ‘better’.
I think it’s being able to walk around in your undies in front of your partner and feel totally fine about it.
I think it’s feeling that while you might not want to walk down the street in your swimmers (but good for you if you do feel that way!) you’re fine to go to the pool on a hot day.
I haven’t given the debate about what it means to have surgery to improve your appearance enough thought to really comment on that. But thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts on it.
I’d vote for you Kate
Thanks Merryl! Bring on the revolution!
I LOVE what you said about scrubbing up alright on the night. That sums up my feelings so well.
Ditto the red wine and choccie. The cost/benefit just doesn’t work out! A bit like housework really…Sure, it would be great to have a really clean and tidy and lovely looking house all the time, but is it worth the cost? NOPE!
xoxo
xo
‘I think positive body image is feeling comfortable with yourself. Not feeling you are perfect necessarily, but not having a significant amount of your time and energy spent on thoughts about how to look ‘better’.’
YES Kate Too, in a nutshell!
And the bit about walking round in your undies…
Kate, I love your reply and I agree with all of it. All. Brilliant woman
Thanking you kindly for your thoughts ladies! How nice it is to come and see that people have liked what I’ve written. It’s a pleasure that never wears off!
Can I say, speaking of replies, that I am a bit on the dodgy side when it comes to remembering to tick the notify me of new comments box…OK I am sometimes dodgy at even remembering to put my name in the box before I hit submit!…so I would like to say a general and very sincere sorry in case one of you has responded and it seems I haven’t been bothered to answer you. I get such a boost from the chats I have with you people. Group hug!xoo
Attention to detail/focus – I’m working on it!
What’s that you say Anonymous? You’re working on it? Ha-ha! x
Listen smarty, we can’t ALL think up annoying songs to put in people’s heads all day AND remember our own names at the same time!
x
And I can’t – see my faux pas elsewhere. My comeuppance has already been got. x
Toot toot! Karma train departing platform one!
xo
Stopping all stations it would seem.
Nice to see you have time to log-in when you’re sledging! xx
Yay, I’m a sledger! It sounds like some kind of super athletic skiing person…which of course I so totally am.
xo
Luge-artist. x
That sounds a little racy!as in, ooh baby, you’re such a luuuuuge artist.
x
Oh for goodness sake – now I am actually embarrassed – I swear that was a technical error, I really DID put my name in the box!
picardie.girl, I’m loving the vote of confidence, just what the dr ordered for me today! Thank you very much!
xo
TRS,
I agree with your therapist, it is normal to have things about us (males or females) that we do not like and wish to change. If humans were not like this, then we would never progress, advance and develop as a species. It is only when it becomes obsessive that there are other issues. (Which begs the question: When is this point reached?)
At the risk of sounding patronising, this post is the most balanced, logical and intelligent statement that I have ever seen on this topic so far. (How often does it come up on MM?) I guess that is another reason GR is doing so well.
[Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.]
I am loving your little one-liners at the end of your posts BS. Keep them coming.
That’s an image (of bottom exposure) fixed firmly in my mind now…..
HA! Nice one Merryl.
BS I like those lines too, can you please translate this for me, I do not know what does it mean, love ooxx
Britches are pants WW. If you’re too big for your pants your bum will eventually be on show! xx
Being too big for your britches is also an expression. If someone is too big for their britches, they are conceited and have an exaggerated sense of their own importance. So it has a literal and metaphorical meaning… very clever BS.
Thank you Louby and picardie.girl, love ooxx
Hi WW,
Sorry I have not answered your question earlier, but unlike you ladies of leisure, I have to work for a living.
I think the girls have explained it well, and picardie.girl explained it better than I could; she is obviously a lexophile.
I have read through the posts (can you believe this will be the 125th; GR is getting bigger than BH), and have been laughing loudly at the banter between the girls, and at the same time sullen at some of the stories.
TRS has created something special here, and she actually replies to questions herself, don’t you TRS?
WW, love ooxx to you.
Thank you BS, what is BH? love to you ooxx
BS is referring to the expression ‘bigger than Ben Hur’. An epic movie for its day. x
Thanks Louby, love your work; spot on you smart lady. But what do you mean by ‘for its day’?
From what I understood it was the first ‘epic’ film with a huge cast (tons of extras) and budget etc. Now with Hollywood schlock-busters being churned out left, right and centre I assumed that this has become commonplace. Am happy to be corrected though because I’m just guessing…
Louby, (we have run out of ‘reply buttons’),
what are you doing there?
When I was questioning the ‘for its day’, I was being a bit of a tease, inferring that you were having a dig at my age. Actually, I am not even sure I have seen Ben Hur, but the expression stuck in our vernacular, probably because not only was the film an epic production (Cecille B. De Milles), but the story was epic itself. ( I preferred ‘The Ten Commandments’.) I thought the first Hollywood epic was ‘Gone With The Wind’ (and I am not referring to the boy explaining the hole in his underpants), but who cares?
Nice writing to you, go and have a good day.
No worries BS. Sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick. Off to make Hot Cross Buns with Mr 3 now. You have a good day too.
Yeah, I am still here; what does that say.
Please do not apologise, we are just having fun.
Can smell those Hot Cross Buns, which reminds me:
Happy Easter to all.
Ben Hur, now we are talking, of course I saw all of them, Gone with the wind, BH and the 10 commandment! easy peasy from now on I know what you mean, thank you, Louby and BS and Happy Easter to you to, love ooxx
Yes I do BS !!
See, I told you.
I know you hate it, but LOL.
Oh interesting perspective Steph. I have to agree that positive body image does not mean that you love everything about yourself – it’s more about being comfortable in your skin. Being comfy doesn’t equal perfection, it doesn’t mean you can’t, or don’t want change. It’s like a house – you might be house proud and love your house, but some day’s, there is going to be washing on the floor, or that dust in the corner that you always forget about – Doesn’t mean you love your house any less?
I am on the fence about where I am at the moment. On the one hand, I feel that I just gave birth to my baby daughter a few months ago, so am entitled to be wearing these extra, extra kilos. On the other hand, these kilos were on before she even came along and I really think I need to get my booty into action, before I really spiral out of control. I hate my clothes, I hate shopping for me, I often cry or at least get grumpy when I have to meet someone I haven’t met for a while, and I watch other more attractive females with sometimes resentment and jealousy. I haven’t gone to a hairdresser in over two years, and I am lucky if I shave my legs once a week – yet I still love me, and who I am? So I think it’s wrong to say you aren’t entitled to talk about body image because of certain procedures you may have done (or haven’t had done) – I agree with lawandshoes, it’s not different then getting a tattoo, dyeing your hair or slathering a bit of fake tan on – some are more permament than others, but at the end of the day, we are just trying to present an image of ourselves that we can proud of, and are happy with right?
Well said!
Hmmm, I have fairly positive body image these days – but that is tied to the fact that I have lost 25 kilos!
From age 18-22 I had anorexia, weighed 32 kilos. So growing up I had terrible body image. This was kind of reinforced by my mother and her friends, who were always on some sort of diet (cabbage soup, limits biscuits – it was the 80s). I went on my first diet at age 10.
These days my body image is pretty good. I still have an issue about going out with my glasses on – I wear them to work, but would never wear them out to dinner or a club (Did the old saying ‘boys don’t make passes at girls in glasses’ stick too much with me??).
I do occasionally wish I was thinner (I am a size 12 ), but most days I am happy with the way I look. But no one is perfect and we all have our quirks and areas we are not happy about. I am conscious about my boobs personally – since I lost weight they have become tiny, and I miss my chest!
Hey thanks for sharing Linda x
Linda our stories sound pretty similar – I’ve noticed before when the topic has come up at MM.
My mum was (and still is) under every diet under the sun, and I just thought that was a normal way to be.
And babe, I wear my glasses all the time – and I’ve had PLENTY of passes! If I don’t wear them I fall over shit though, so there’s that. Hate wearing them in photos though, the flash always seems to reflect in a funky spot x
TRS – you raise a lot of points in there. On the Botox issue – that is no different from the years that I have spent waxing, shaving, electrocuting & lasering hair from my body. I hate the hair on my body, always have done ever since I was about 6 years old. My mum is not and never has been a mad depilator so my hair issues don’t come from her. Charli will have her own body issues no doubt because everyone does. What she will also have is a mum to look up to because you are honest and self-aware. Not many people can say that.
“Charli will have her own body issues no doubt because everyone does. What she will also have is a mum to look up to because you are honest and self-aware. Not many people can say that.” YES. Honesty and self-awareness are the greatest personal qualities you can present to her in a role model. Good on you for having both of those.
Awwww thanks girls ! I needed a lift this morning, I’m tired and grumpy today ! x
Sorry to hear that lovely – find a spot where you can crank up the music and have a dance as soon as possible….go on, you know it will help!
Who has some suggestions for happy songs for our wonderful hostess?
Mine is ‘So What’ – Pink – in my head it goes..
Yes I am tired and grumpy, I know that i really am,
I guess i am also anxious, and maybe a little depressed,
life is too damn hard some days, and today it really bites
everyone is doing my head in, i’ll probably get in ten fights
BUT SO WHAT? I’M STILL A ROCK STAR! etc etc
xoxoxo
A tie-in with another post…
Always look on the bright side of life
(insert whistling solo)
Both of you are on a roll today — Louby, thank god I didn’t know the first song, but now the whistling is totally in there!
Pink is a good one for a house dance. I also like Kelly Clarkson — Since You’ve Been Gone is good to rock out too as well.
Realised with horror that I made a typo and didn’t get to fix it before it posted, please amend the last line to: *to rock to as well!
Yeah I like that one too picardie.girl
What is the oldish one that goes
You gotta be bad, you gotta be bold, you gotta be wiser
You gotta be hard, you gotta be tough, you gotta be stronger
You gotta be cool, you gotta be calm, you gotta stay together
etc etc?
That’s one of my faves in my head at the moment!
Desiree, ‘You Gotta Be’
Nice choice. I’m going to have to dig that out when I go to my parents’ on the weekend!
Oh thanks, I got to get me a copy of that!
Actually, as I recall that whole CD is quite good.
Maybe a top five on best ‘you rock, lady’ songs is in order Steph?
Ooh, YES!
LOVE that song !
Holy crap, I just looked up ‘So What’ on iTunes (got inspired, thanks Kate) and discovered that it was used in the movie Alvin and the Chipmunks: the Squeakuel! A Chipmunk version. The horror.
Now I am seriously cackling here at my kitchen table – the Squeakuel! That’s GOLD my friend, GOLD!
x
I agree. There is no place in this world for singing chipmunks!!
There’s always a place in this world for singing chipmunks – it’s in the hearts of small children/uni students who need to get out more everywhere.
We don’t even charge rent on it.